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Ok, I made it
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John L Offline
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Post: #1
Ok, I made it
I'm here finally. I was originally registered before the changeover, but have gotten back on board. I'll starting checking out the software, and see if it suits Jane.

Oh, for those, who don't know me, I'm John, the owner of Ai-Jane.org. I'm an old fart, former military, over educated, over opinionated, a proud Liberal(in the original sense), and an equal opportunity offender.Tongue

Oh, I hate Collectivism, and I am opposed to Eco-Wackos, and AGW freaks. And I don't mind telling you either.

I also quote Frederic Bastiat, Dr Frederic von Hayek, and Dr Walter E. Williams, rather prodigiously.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2009 09:50 AM by John L.)
11-27-2009 09:48 AM
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Sunsettommy Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Ok, I made it
Hello JohnL,

Nice to see you here.

Hopefully your time here will help you decide on how to update your forum.I think you made a good decision to look around at other software before you convert.

Quote:a proud Liberal(in the original sense)

Does this mean you are a CLASSIC liberal?
11-27-2009 09:56 AM
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John L Offline
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RE: Ok, I made it
(11-27-2009 09:56 AM)Sunsettommy Wrote:  Hello JohnL,

Nice to see you here.

Hopefully your time here will help you decide on how to update your forum.I think you made a good decision to look around at other software before you convert.

Quote:a proud Liberal(in the original sense)

Does this mean you are a CLASSIC liberal?

Correct. However, I really hate to have to preface it with "classic", since we are the Real Deal. Those other 'so called' liberals are really Collectivists, which is the exact opposite of real Liberalism, which is Individualism personified.
11-27-2009 10:12 AM
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Sunsettommy Offline
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RE: Ok, I made it
Then it really should be LEFTISTS and LIBERALS?

The confusion seems to be that many Democrats today do not seem to be aware of the difference between the two groups.

I keep wondering why people like Obama and Franken can get elected when they are actually hostile to individual liberties.
11-27-2009 10:32 AM
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John L Offline
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RE: Ok, I made it
(11-27-2009 10:32 AM)Sunsettommy Wrote:  Then it really should be LEFTISTS and LIBERALS?

The confusion seems to be that many Democrats today do not seem to be aware of the difference between the two groups.

I keep wondering why people like Obama and Franken can get elected when they are actually hostile to individual liberties.

That's close. But not all Rightists are really Liberals. True, classic, Liberalism, is composed of about four main tenets: Limited self-government; responsible Individualism; the rule of law; and Free Trade. It is usually the later, which seperates most of the Right. Many call for "Fair Trade", which is really nothing more than protectionism. I have to argue the merits of Free Trade all of the time with many on the Right.

The phrase "Fair Trade" is really nothing more than Protectionism, and strategically is it wrong. My avatar is that of Frederic Bastiat, who wrote "The Law", and "That Which is Seen, and That Which Is Not Seen". In the later, he begins with,

Quote:In the department of economy, an act, a habit, an institution, a law, gives birth not only to an effect, but to a series of effects. Of these effects, the first only is immediate; it manifests itself simultaneously with its cause - it is seen. The others unfold in succession - they are not seen: it is well for us, if they are foreseen. Between a good and a bad economist this constitutes the whole difference - the one takes account of the visible effect; the other takes account both of the effects which are seen, and also of those which it is necessary to foresee. Now this difference is enormous, for it almost always happens that when the immediate consequence is favourable, the ultimate consequences are fatal, and the converse. Hence it follows that the bad economist pursues a small present good, which will be followed by a great evil to come, while the true economist pursues a great good to come, - at the risk of a small present evil.

His point is that it is what is "unseen" that really matters most, and those, who do not take this into account, are going to cause trouble, even though it does not appear that way. Protectionist tariffs are more hurtful to others, even though the the obvious are placated. Dr Walter E Williams talks about this all the time, and quotes Bastiat as often as possible. If you really want to know more, I highly suggest you read Bastiat's work.

Bastiat was perhaps the most influential writer in economics, in the last few centuries. His essays are easy to follow, profound in scope, and easy to pass along to others. Usually, when I point out the importance of the 'unseen' to my brothers on the right, they understand it almost immediately. The key is to get people to pull back the rug, and see what is underneath, prior to making judgment calls about things economic.

I am a dedicated follower of Frederic Bastiat, who was a Genius. Anyway, the issue or Free Trade is what seperates Liberals from others on the Right. And it is the hardest concept to completely understand.
(This post was last modified: 11-27-2009 10:58 AM by John L.)
11-27-2009 10:56 AM
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JohnWho Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Ok, I made it
You're John who?

No, wait, I'm JohnWho!

Are you one of those people who exhales CO2 or do you want to "save the planet?"

Hmm... can one be both?

Anyway, welcome to the board.

I know you think you understand what you thought I said,
but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!
11-27-2009 02:23 PM
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